Atmah Hunt Results
Sep 21st, 2008 |
I was told it was a “killer” hunt. Is there some sort of a contest going on to see who can set the toughest hunt this year?
Top 3 teams all tied with 6 mistakes, winners position determined based on Q count back.
(Q: 90 + T: 40 + B:20 = 150pts)
- 138 (78+40+20) - Lim Soo Khian, Goh Teck Khoon, Claire Chin, Julie Tan
- 138 (78+40+20) - KK Chai, Margaret Sha, Vincent Woo, VK Chong
- 138 (78+40+20) - Alex Hoh, Andre Teh, Mawar, Shahrin
- 134 (82+32+20) - Liew Kok Seng, Dato’ Ramesh, Chong Foo Seong, Lim Kong Yew
- 132 (72+40+20) - Yeap Heng Boon, Sam Rahman, Ho Mun Yee, Ho King Mun
- 128 - Venka, Sakthival, Buavnes, Eeswaran
- 122 - Selina Yong, Toh Wei Ming, Loh Siew Fun, Lily Loh
- 120 - Anuar Jeffri, Lim Say Chye, Chin Kar Seng, Tan Kok Cheeng
- 118 - Zahrol, Suhaimi, CK Loh, Tommy Ng
- 116 - Steven Arokiaraj, Sanjay Abdullah, Rahmah, Sumita
- 112 - Patrick Senniah & Team Blur Squard
- 102 - Phillip Karrupiah & Joehari
- 100 - Vicknarajah Thiagarajah, Haema Thiagarajah, Anucia Chacko, Helena Francis
- 96 - Anita, Vishnu, Puni, Sree
- 94 - Shirley Ho, Rajj
- 94 - Pirabarkaran, Kirubahkaran, Navamalar
- 92 - Rueben Chelliah, Angela Chelliah, Pasupathy, Raj
- 90 - David Tan Peng Ooh, Sin Yoong Leong, Cheok Wye Leong, Yeoh Keat Leong
- 88 - Prabakaran Karuppiah, Ganesan Selvarajan, Shanmugavalen Perumakavandan, Thevakunjari Ramakrishnan
- 86 - Sri Ganesh Gopalakrishnan, Chandramohan Ramachandran, Jenani Thilagalingam, Arni Shahida Abd Razak
krollnazib said:
lepas the vbcm ‘walk hunt to ipoh’, hunt getting susah & susah…ini mcm susah la mau cari makan
ckoh said:
krollnazib,
Agaknya kalaupun soalan hunt semuanya senang, yang menang tu tetap orang2 yang sama kot.
Perbezaannya (mungkin):
1) Regular hunters mengambil masa 4 jam, dan new hunters pula mengambil masa 5-6 jam untuk sampai di end station;
2) Pemenang 10 tempat yg teratas semuanya ditentukan melalui tie-breaker;
3) New hunters dapat jawab lebih banyak soalan, namun tetap “susah cari makan”;
4) Regular hunters dapat jawab semua soalan, menang hadiah dan wang tunai, tetapi tak puas hati sebab kurang cabaran.
Yang kekal tak berubah (mungkin):
1) Hampir semua pemenang di kalangan muka2 yang biasa juga;
2) New hunters kekal tak dapat pelajari apa2 yang baru, walaupun agaknya lebih seronok dapat jawab lebih banyak soalan;
3) Oleh kerana tak dapat pelajari benda baru, dalam jangka masa panjang tempat teratas kekal dikuasai oleh regular hunters sampai bila2. Team yg baru semuanya tak ada peluang nak naik, pasal asyik kekal dekat level darjah satu, macam mana pula nak cabar yg sudah ada ijazah?
krollnazib said:
ckoh
in other words, the ‘learning’ process for new hunter will take much longer, 1-3 years hunting will not give them enough credit for their ‘degree’, but think about it, our current education system pun sama juga, nowadays everybody can get their degree as long as ada RM or sponsor, the smart one can graduate early la join more hunt (more RM needed) or get someone to pay for you
ckoh said:
krollnazib,
I doubt that there is a standard timeframe to learn to be good in this sport/game. But yes, generally speaking, experience counts. And may I add that it is more effective to join more quality hunts. There is not much point in joining hunts where everyone can answer all (or most of) the questions. There is hardly anything significant you can learn from these kind of hunts for sure?
Attitude and individual talents count too. I have known a number of people who started to win hunts after joining less than 10 hunts. I think if one is serious—I mean really serious—you’d be surprised how fast he/she can improve! It doesn’t take very long to learn if you really want to learn; or if you have the flair for it.
But if you are not really keen to learn, you can spend 10 years in the university and still don’t know anything. You may get the degree though, just that the mind is empty. I have also seen some of those creatures.
Just my thoughts. But of course I am also still learning this game/sport… hehehe
ckoh said:
By the way, Mike, I’m curious to know what has happen to the survey you were conducting the other day, on the topic of “cooling off” period after hunts. What was the popular view, for or against? What was the statistic like?
Captain Jack Swallow said:
An announcement!
Firstly, a very good Hunt. Thanks Pava.
I would like to take the opportunity here to inform fellow Hunters that the 3K Triple One Hunt on Nov 1 is going to be a pure Hunt (no zodiac mind games etc). This may be the trend for all our future Hunts.
Expect some juicy questions for “masters” to chew.
Good ground for “serious beginners” too!
Pleasant day.
Captain Jack Swallow
krollnazib said:
ckoh,
this year i miss numbers of good hunts, the main reason is ‘not enough kaki’. me personally not up to the standard to ‘tumpang’ the master, the same time hardly can ‘ajak’ new comers to join me, their reason ‘tak mau la, gerenti tak menang’. can’t blame them la. not everybody have ‘extra rm’ in their pocket to pay for the fees.
sometime, i will give free ‘ride’ to ‘who can check thesaurus and write’, simply to make it 3 or 4. if the trend were to continue, guess i have to retire early lor
but, i believe someone somewhere out there currently cracking their head to come out with a formula so the master will “puas hati dengan cabaran” and the new comer/ not so new comer (like me
) will continue hunting sebab “ada harapan menang”, for the benefit of the industry…anybody???
“You may get the degree though, just that the mind is empty. I have also seen some of those creatures” - careful we will still have the ISA hahahahahaha
peace
Mike said:
ckoh, after 2 weeks - 16 for and 10 against.
LanunS said:
maybe in every open category, there must be another sub-categories for MASTER. Hunters spend their money to join any hunt, but still the winners are still the same faces; everytime.
ckoh said:
krollnazib,
Affordability for the cost of joining hunts is entirely a different matter. It is often very difficult to define what is expensive and what is not when it comes to hobbies. I see people spending a lot of money for golf memberships. They wake up in the wee hours of the morning to play golf. And not all of them win tournaments all the time.
Kalau nak geranti menang, saya rasa treasure hunt is not the game lah. I think we should start to realise that treasure hunts are not “maggi mi”—cepat dimasak, sedap dimakan. It takes time to learn, especially if you are learning to be winners. If it helps to make you feel better, those “familiar faces” on the podium at the end of most hunts have been in the game for years; and they have spent much more money to get there. That’s why however you design the hunt, they will most likely end up on the podium anyway. Gitulah kalau dah makan banyak garam. Kalau kita nak podium finish juga, kena banyak makan garam juga lah. Janji jangan mati pasal high blood pressure sudahlah!… HAHAHA!
Claire said:
There is no such thing as a free lunch. We just have to work hard if we are really passionate about it. Nothing comes for free!
pity me said:
this issue, which has been debated before, will crop up again if we do not do anything to address it. the central argument is how to strike a balance in accommodating the needs of master and novice/beginner teams.
as one hunter stated before, too easy, it will be a walk in the park for the masters; too hard, the novices will probably suffer a heart attack.
i do not know how many beginners, after a hard time at a hunt, have stayed away from the sport. Granted, the masters will say they worked hard to be what they are today and beginners will have to start from zero, learn the skills the hard way, must be willing to spend money and time to learn the art of hunting.
if we can agree that there is a need to provide a level playing field, how about cutting down the time to complete the hunt for master teams compared to the others.
i am sure the masters will not mind, after all, if they can still win, they will savour the victory more.
but the question is how do we determine a master team as
there is no official or recognised list of master hunters.
but if i am not mistaken, time out solutions has something like a hall of fame for hunters, perhaps this list can be used for starter.
Mike said:
pity me,
good idea.
in fact, this was one of the options that i was tempted to used in my last open hunt. maybe, not cutting the time for masters but provide extra time for the rest. the masters, they don’t mind being beaten/outwitted after really trying, but not because they don’t have time to solve the tougher questions. so provide adequate time for the hunt based on the no. of questions, distance, etc and give extra 30 minutes or so for the rest.
Metro said:
Kroll … you can always join our team (u said u dont have enough kaki to form a team)
ckoh said:
Last Saturday I attended the Installation Night of an Interact Club. Seated beside me was the incoming President. We were chatting with each other, and she said, “So… I heard you have many riddles. Do you any for me?”
So I asked her this question:
There is a kind of leaf which grows on the surface of water. It can double in number every 24 hours, i.e. 1 becomes 2; 2 becomes 4; 4 becomes 8 etc. Now we put that single leaf into a pond which has no other plant in it. Exactly 40 days later, the entire surface of that pond is covered by the leaves which originated from that single one we started with.
Now we remove all those leaves from the pond and start again. But this time we start with 2 leaves. How long will it take to cover the entire surface of that pond?
The President took about 2 seconds to answer this question. There are basically 3 groups of people:
1) Those who would’nt even try this question after getting confused somewhere after the second sentence;
2) Those who would have enough patience to read the question, understand it, and then apparently driven by reflex, would shout out the answer: 20 days! (The President was within this group, as expected);
3) Those who would really think and analyse the question properly before giving the correct answer.
While I agree with the idea of giving more time for non-masters for the purpose of “levelling the playing field”, we should also not forget that for some people, no amount of extra time will help. Once they are stuck with one line of thought, there is little chance for them to shake themselves out of that idea, whatever it is. If they are on the wrong track, they will stay there no matter how many hours they’re staring at the correct answer.
Pava said:
Hi Guys, Thanks for you comments. The idea of having 2 categories needs to be tought throughly.
1) How to determine the masters.
2) What about teams that have one master and others new?
3) What if the Master engage another team of the new to
treasure hunts and help them with the answers.
4) We are always fighting for things based on merit and now
here we want a “quota system”.
5) We must have enough sponsors for prizes as well.
When I started hunting 18 years ago for nearly 2 years I got disqualified and when I first won a consolation prize I was so delighted, so basically practice makes perfect.
There are newcomers who are improving for example 6 place winners, so guys dont give up as as c.o.c I try very hard to even the playing ground but without spoiling the sport.
Thanks Againg for taking part.
slasher said:
Hi,
To me and my team, we are enjoying the hunt that we join. We are new hunters and only participated in 2 hunts so far. But i dont think by not winning anything we will lose interest or quit hunting because of tough questions. We still looking forward to join more hunts in the future to learn how to tackle all those questions. Having extra times for beginner surely a bonus for us but as stated in above reply, surely there will be some problem.
Though we still thinking positively that one day we might find ourself winning a consolation at least but losing in all hunts for the beginning stage i think is normal for beginners. Those masters have paid so much in the earlier days before they start winning so for beginners there will be no easy way to learn except from hard way. We always try our best to get 80% of the total scores everytime we go hunting, but we end up sadly getting 60% of the total scores. LoL. Sad result for beginners ehh…
My team still looking forward to join at least 5 hunts between the month of october till december. We dont expect to win anything though but just to gain some valueble experience and enjoy the sports.
Like a malay saying : Kalah menang adat permainan.
So dont always think of winning. Losing sometimes will bring more joy also. As long as everyone in the team give their best and enjoy the throughout the event then it is good enough.
Well, see you guys in the coming hunt.
pity me said:
ckoh,
points taken. but at least, we give the non-masters some breathing space, a chance to fight. it is important to give people hope. just think how demoralising it would be knowing from the start that the podium finish will be dominated by the usual suspects.
to the masters, i am sure they yearn for some extra challenge/obstacles. we should raise the bar for them, if not, how could they improve themselves.
but again, the tricky part is separating the masters from the non. it can be messy. as pointed by pava, if a team comprises masters and beginners, how do we categorise them?
but remember the sun hunt? there were two categories, masters and non-masters. perhaps all open hunts should be structured along this line. the only setback is we have to come up with two sets of prizes.
so, i think the best option is still one category but non-master teams given a handicap.
slasher said:
Btw ckoh…what is the answer for the riddle? Kind of interested to know. Is it 39 days?
I said it 39 because 2 to the power of 40 is equal to the value of 2 to the power of 39 and multiply by 2. Therefore when it multiplies less 1 day but having an extra leaf to multiply by 39 days it will bring back the same result.
Mike said:
Hi Pava,
Wow! 18years ago!
Yes, Venka and team have been doing very well for a relatively new team. And a very hard working team too, participating in all available hunts. The first time I notice them was about 9 months ago at this tough hunt and they were thrashed. I thought I’ll never see them again. But next morning, there they were again at another hunt! And they have not stop since.
adrian said:
hi all,
i know i will probably be shot by some new comers or semi regulars for saying this but why are u ppl asking for a handicap? There is no free lunches. If you think, u want to win, be serious and improve as fast as u can to win a prize. Where is your attitude for winning? Are our mental strength so low that we only want to win by asking for a handicap? Geez..wake up, in the practical world, you need to be good at what you want whether is a hobby or work.
Ask any sport person and they will tell you, practice, practice practice and combine that with a winning attitude.
Take our badminton players, they can beat the best on their days but at times fall short to the easiest of opponents. Why? Some say, not my day etc, etc. However, the best players always say, I will win the next time round. No excuses given.
So, let’s be practical, do your homework, prepare and enjoy urself with the right attitude.
Happy hunting.Cheers.
adrian said:
well done slasher,
Enjoy the ride and the benefits from hunting is enormous. take care and see you around. Cheers.
ckoh said:
slasher,
You have a very complicated mind, my friend. I am having trouble understanding your means of arriving at the answer, but I’m glad to say that at least the answer is correct! There is a much easier way to explain and less painful for the simple-minded folks.
Now we know that the number of leaves will double every 24 hrs. Since it takes 40 days to cover the entire surface of the pond, logic will tell us that the day prior to that, the surface must be half-covered.
Therefore we can deduce that it takes 39 days to cover half of the surface beginning with ONE leaf. If we start with TWO leaves, then logically the other leaf will cover the other half of the pond within 39 days. So the TWO leaves, each covering half, would have the combined effect of covering the entire pond within 39 days. Simple is it not?
It’s this kind of question that I like to conjure up for treasure hunts. They look complicated and require sophisticated knowledge. They can be intimidating. But actually almost everybody can solve it, provided he is willing to apply a bit of logical reasoning and common sense.
ckoh said:
pity me,
In any competition, all of us will have to start from the bottom. I don’t know about other new hunters, but if I were to beat a master team because I was given some sort of handicap/advantage, I doubt that I will be very pleased with myself.
But of course I can’t say this is the popular view of the majority. That’s why I can agree with your idea of the time handicap, though as I said I doubt that it will help much. If anything, the advantage is only psychological, because if you don’t have the skill to crack the clues, another extra hour hardly makes any difference.
One way or another, the new hunter must learn the cryptic skills. Those familiar faces on the podium did it that way too. At one time, they endured that “demoralising” feeling that you spoke of too.
We hear new teams grumble all the time. They say at the rate they are going, it will take forever to beat the masters. We have sufficient evidence to show that this claim is totally untrue. A new team known as Idiot Savant did not take “forever” to beat the masters. And in the recent LexisNexis, Venka and his friends beat so many master teams to reach second place.
slasher said:
ckoh,
maybe i explain it too complicated for the answer but the logic is same.
2 to the power of 40 = cover all
2 to the power of 39 multiply 2 = 2 to the power of 40 as well
therefore the answer is 39 because:
2 to the power of 40 is for 1 leaf
2 to the power of 39 (which is half) x 2 leaf = full surface cover
hahhaa…not good in putting it into words but maths wise i think is like this…
slasher said:
pity me,
Actually wat being said by ckoh above is true. Giving the new hunters like us an extra time of 30-60min actually only to make us happy but in the end we still cant solve the question due to lack of skill in decrypting the question and especially the treasure item part. For new hunters to be able to solve 2 or 3 out of 5 treasure item i think consider quite good already.
I am not too sure bout how other new hunters will think but to me having fair competition is always nice.
Enjoy the hunt and learn from the hunt and gain experience to better ourself in the coming hunt. Surely there will be one day we will be awarded for our hard work. Even a consolation prize for the new hunters they will be satisfied. They will be happy because they can finally achieve something in the end of their hard work.
krollnazib said:
just a thought…
maybe we can provide an OPTION; where teams have an option to participate in which category…
say the 1st prize winner is rm5K, we divide the prize - rm3.5K (or more) for option A (category) and rm1.5K (or less) for option B (category).
ALL teams are qualified to register for option A; but to qualified for option B, terms and conditions apply, FAIL to comply with ’salah satu dari syarat2′, the team will ‘masuk’ in option A and ‘keputusan hakim adalah muktamad - wang pendaftaran tidak di kembalikan’
During registration, ALL teams have to pay 100% of the fees, team who registered for option B and QUALIFIED will get 25% refund (hadiah sikit maa, fees pun mesti la kurang).
Question for option B will be as tough as option A (kalau senang dia orang tak belajar la) but if possible 30% of the question is totally different from option A (to minimize COLLABORATION or tuduhan collaborating, just in case)
‘di kembang kan untuk hadiah 2 to n+1)’
my 2 cent hypothesis;
master team will hunt even the 1st prize is only RM1K, some said because it’s in their blood, some said because they supporting the industry, so, i believe they definitely will hunt even the 1st prize is ONLY RM3.5K - so no worry about master team, they will be there.
option B is basically a ‘training ground’ for the semi-regulars and new comers, as mention earlier, question for option B MUST as tough as option A, and after sometime, they definitely will try their luck in option A - better prize there…
Will it works? i don’t know….
2 cents non the richer
peace…
kok seng said:
Kroll and others,
At the end of the day, its always the organisers preorgative. Remember, its their event and not yours. They have their own objectives eg. marketing awareness, specific product campaign, for needy & worthy cause in fulfilment of CSR, etc. They are not there to cater for who is a novice or a master. While there are some generous corporations out there who’s willing to dish out more cash and prizes for this segregation, its in all probability…rare!
While some COC may bring this idea up to their clients to do the split, it will end up in the COC having to do more work, from planning, execution and marking, using more resources and time for the same fee that they are getting. Where’s the motivation for them. Its afterall a business venture for them. So long the client is happy and the event is deemed successful in their client’s eyes, its great business done.
The only way up then, is just keep going at it. To add to Corny’s example of success stories of Idiot Savant (Eng Siang’s team) and Space Pirates (Venka’s team), there’s also Ultrasaurus (Steven’s team) who in a short 2 years or so won the Sun Hunt Open Category, the Jackals (Kok Cheeng’s team), Ho King Mun, Ho Mun Yee, Toh Wei Ming, Selina Yong, Phillip K, Joehari and the list goes on - these people that have been mentioned started as a freshie no less than 2-3 years ago (majority of them) and their perserverence and love for the sport got them to where they are today.
The ball is in your court.
Cheers!
pity me said:
saying that everybody should be treated equally is denying reality.
there are inequalities in every sphere of our life, be it sports, education, politics, trade and commerce etc.
if equality is the mantra, then we should tell a lightweight boxer to take on a world heavyweight; a novice to challenge the chess grandmaster; malaysian swimmer to dare michael phelps; our badminton national trainee to square of with lin dan or ask the pkns football club to humiliate manchester united.
in short, there are categories. we should not and cannot lump everyone in the same league. it is just unfair. hence, when we are forced or have no choice but to group everyone together, those lagging behind must be given some form of assistance.
many say novices/beginners will improve over time but don’t forget, the masters will also improve, so the catching up game will see no end.
ckoh said:
pity me,
It is possible to separate the hunters into different categories, but as Kok Seng had already pointed out, hunts like that are rare. You would need to look for very, very generous organizers for the prizes; and an extremely hard-working CoC for the extra work.
We have all seen how hard the numerous CoCs have been trying to “level the playing field”. Games of chances have been introduced into hunts so that one might think that the element of chance would make the hunts less predictable. To this end, ridiculous games of paper aeroplanes, coconut bowling, dart throwing, grape-counting have all been used. This leeway, that leeway for the newcomers. Yet empirical evidence will show that the same faces almost always end up on the podium.
As I said earlier, all these handicaps, are only psychological in nature. They give hope to the newcomers, but hardly anything more. Because it still boils down to the cryptic skill that is required to crack the clues. If the newcomers refuse to overcome this particular hurdle, they are not likely to make much progress no matter what handicap is given to them. Well, OK, unless if you’re suggesting the masters hunt on bicycles, while the newcomers hunt in their cars; maybe that would have a significant impact on the outcome of the hunt.
slasher said:
Hi,
Some off topic info here. Seems like there is a good news for all hunters. TheSun motor hunt has been confirmed to be on 2nd November.
The entry form can be downloaded from :
www.thesundaily.com
Thanks
Tony said:
If golf can have handicap, why can’t hunting?
ckoh said:
Yeah, good point, Tony!
If golf can have handicap, why can’t badminton, the 100-metre sprint or even the marathon?
For badminton, the professional players must score 21 points; and the non-professional require, say, 5 points only per set.
For the 100-metre sprint, the professional sprinters run the full 100 metres; whereas the non-professionals are required to run only 70 metres.
For the marathon, say, the regular runners run the 42km whereas the beginner runners only have to run, say 10 km.
That ought to level things up a bit.
The Karans said:
We are a new team hunting for the a little more than one year with around ten hunts under our belt. Ours is a three person team. We reached the 16.th place in the Atmah Hunt.
I honestly believe, the only way to savour the satisfaction of winning is to win the best. What is the glory or satisfaction in winning if you cannot beat the best. I still remember when Jose Mourniho was interviewed immedeatly after taking the helm of Chelsea, a reporter said, you will be able to win the Premier League in a few years. He replied we will win it this year. And guess what he did it.
In anything we do, the effort , desire, passion and hardwork to achieve the goals should be the buzz word.
It is very typical of the Malaysian mentality to always ask for a level playing field when we cannot compete. Always a free a lunch as it is enshrined in our constitution. Be it in sports, education or business. Special previligaes for entrance into universities, special priivelages in business.
After getting special previlages for entering the universities, we lower the standard to ensure the undergraduates will become graduates. After we graduates, special arrangements so these graduates get employed and on,and on. But where is it taking us. We have become non compettive, non capable very, dependent on handouts but very happy. If Lin Dan is a champion at 18 why can’t a Malaysian be a champion at eighteen. We gloryfy our short coming with catch phrases like “jaguh kampung”. We should focus on raising the bar not lowering the standards. We all start at the same level playing field. The only difference is the champions have greater desire, are more hardworking, are more passionate and do not want to win by default.
I believe the same goes for treasure hunting. Change your mindset. Go for the glory of the win. Our team desires to win just as much as the next team. But if we win because of some one’s tidings it is not worth it.
Kok’ Seng’s team is undeniably the best out there. Bench mark his team and beat them at their own game. Glory and satisfaction shall be yours forever.
adrian said:
Well said, the karans.
Applaud your attitude and see you at the podium very soon if not the next hunt.
All the best.
ckoh said:
Ahem!!
I can agree with you, The Karans, and I would not attempt to add further comments against these parties who’re pushing to “level the playing field”.
Having said that, however, I’m attracted to your last paragraph, i.e.
“Kok Seng’s team is undeniably the best out there…”
It is unclear how you arrived at such conclusion; and I am convinced that perhaps a fair number of hunters would disagree with your view. I have a feeling that you must have arrived at that conclusion by referring to last year’s theSun Hunt. But there were many other equally high-profile hunts, and the winners of those were different teams.
May I suggest that a more accurate way to phrase it is like this:
Kok Seng’s team is undeniably one of the best out there.
Right now we don’t have any proper means in Malaysia to determine which team is the best. Perhaps one of these days, someone might take the initiative to introduce something like a treasure hunt grand prix. The results from, say, 10 carefully-selected hunts in a calendar year are compiled and then the top 10 - 15 teams shall compete in a grand finale to determine the best of the best for that particular year. That would then give us a basis to declare the best team.
If one were to trace back the number of hunts since a year ago, and then compile the number of winnings by these top teams, that still doesn’t really show the best of the best, though that is probably a good indication. Hunts are of varying degree of difficulty; some are spoilt by games and numerous other inconsistencies. That’s why we need to carefully select only quality hunts for our purpose.
Any takers? Perhaps Mike would like to initiate the Malaysian Treasure Hunt Grand Prix?… hehehe
The Karans said:
ckoh,
You are right. In last years Sun Motor hunt, Kok sengs team impressed on us. Subsequently, in the few hunts we have participated they have done well. But I agree my statement should have been “one of the best”.
pity me said:
to those against discriminating the masters, i can safely assume that in the upcoming Sun hunt on Nov 2, they will request from the organisers/coc to compete in the masters and not open category.
this is not personal but as a matter of principle.
since they have benchmarked themselves against the masters, it is only right that they compete in that category, which is totally a different kind of game compare to the open as the questions will be different and much, much tougher.
for winning in the open category will be a hollow victory as the standard is much lower. since some say they want to beat the best, then it is only appropriate that they demand to be in the masters category as not only “one of the best” but all the best in the fraternity will be there.
please tell the organisers that you will not be able to beat the best at their own game, which is your desire and dream, if you are not allowed to compete in the category.
it will be a shame for those who don’t mind hunting on “uneven roads” to compete in the open as the field will be full of novices/beginners and the regulars, some of whom spend hours searching for answers which are actually staring right at their face.
you would’nt want to be seen together with this bunch, would you?
ckoh said:
pity me,
It seems to me that you’re steering the debate into a new direction. Our debate is about throwing in handicaps to “level the playing field” so as to allow better chances for the newcomers to win something. Some of us are for it; some against it.
TheSun Motor Hunt is one of those rare hunts where the organizers have allocated 2 categories, i.e. Closed (masters) and Open. I suppose this is the kind of arrangement that you prefer. Nobody is suggesting that winning in either category is more respectable or otherwise.
But the point here is that within each category we go by the same rules; within each category everyone gets the same treatment. There will be no allowances for who’s new and who’s not; who’s experienced and who’s not. In each category we do not give handicaps for certain groups of hunters. That’s what we have been debating here.
If you are a non-master and you compete in the Open category; and eventually winning that category, then you have beaten the best within that category. That is a respectable achievement. And then later you might want to move on to the master category where again no handicaps will be provided to any team.
I’m a bit surprised that your last sentence appears to be heading towards something personal. I can live with it, except that I never declared that I don’t want “to be seen together with this bunch”.
If it’s within my control, I would like to hunt in the Open category and try to beat the best within that category first. And then if I can achieve that, I would be looking forward to attempt the same feat within the master category. I love the challenge! But here’s the thing about theSun Hunt, it is not up to the teams to demand which category to hunt. We are totally at the mercy of the CoC.
I have had the honour to ride with the masters to win a couple of hunts in the west, but I haven’t achieved the same with my own team. I’m still hoping that I will be able to win on my own some day—against the masters. But I shall not be arrogant and insist to only hunt in the master category when I haven’t passed the entry requirement yet. I will only make myself a laughing stock.
ckoh said:
By the way, Mike, is this gonna be another forum which will exceed 100 comments?… hehehe
pity me said:
ckoh,
have nothing against you. am just responding to those thumping their chest that they want to beat the best in the field. my point is, how to beat the best if you are not competing against them?
you may annihilate the best in the open category but in reality, they are second best as the creme de la creme is in the masters category.
i know we cannot choose which category to compete, but as a matter of principle, those against a level playing field should cry foul whenever organisers segregate hunters.
Venka said:
Hi All, I was busy for the past few days that i missed all the conversation. I realise my team is being mention few times here. For me the first task was to find the team mates who loves treasure hunting.
I spoke to few masters in the field and learned that all master grow the hard way. Persistence and hardworking is the attitude we need. The Master really encourage the newcomers to grow. My team’s performance is not consistent. Anyway we take every hunt as a new lesson and build up. We also realise every hunt have different level of difficulty and by joining more hunts you will understand more and grow.
king mun said:
what does it take to be a master??? there is no “cookie cutter” answer to this question. there are many roads and for some it has been short road but for me, it has been a long and hardous journey. i cant even bring myself to being called one.
thank you kok seng for mentioning all of us who started from scratch and probably i prefer to classify myself as a “regular” hunter. i only actively participated in hunts a few years back and suddenly one day we (my team and i) were catapulted into the masters category when we were champions in the open category of the inaugural Sun Hunt.
it has been tough learning the ropes the hard way but it was been worth every drop of sweat that went into it. investments dont come cheap. after years of paying “tuition” fees, its time to reap the benefits. savouring the fruits this way is more enjoyable and meaningful. thats why we enjoy the game.
i suppose its the perogative of the CoC and the event organiser/promoter if a handicap is required and for different reasons. but i m all for a level playing field. as we continuosly cry for meritocracy in all aspects of life, i reckon in this “beautiful game” of ours, it merits the same cry.
see you all at the sun hunt. happy hunting!!